ADHD & Emotional Regulation: Why Everything Feels So Much | Sara Hartley
In this episode, Lou Woods is joined by Sara Hartley, author, creator and mother, for an honest conversation about ADHD, emotional regulation, motherhood and raising neurodivergent children.
Diagnosed with ADHD at 25, Sara shares her own journey of understanding her brain and how becoming a mother transformed the way she understood emotional regulation - both in herself and in her children.
Together, Lou and Sara explore the emotional side of ADHD that is so often misunderstood, the realities of parenting neurodivergent children, societal stigma around ADHD, and what it can feel like trying to navigate a world that isn't always designed with neurodivergent brains in mind.
They also discuss the importance of viewing mistakes and difficult moments as opportunities for learning rather than signs of failure, alongside practical tools and reflections for developing a deeper understanding of ADHD.
Whether you're navigating ADHD yourself, raising neurodivergent children, or simply want to better understand the emotional realities of ADHD, this episode offers an open and relatable conversation about the challenges, strengths and lessons that come with it.
In this episode:
- Sara's ADHD diagnosis at 25
- ADHD and emotional regulation
- Motherhood and understanding ADHD differently
- Parenting neurodivergent children
- ADHD stigma and misunderstanding
- Navigating a world that doesn't always accommodate neurodivergent brains
- Learning through mistakes rather than seeing them as failure
- Practical reflections for understanding ADHD
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Transcript
Hello and welcome to the ADHD Interrupted podcast where we help you really understand what's going on in that neurosparkly brain.
Speaker A:With practical tools, expert insights and plenty of those oh no, it all makes sense moments that we all definitely need on this journey.
Speaker A:Today's guest is the wonderful author, creator and ADHD mum, Sarah Hartley.
Speaker A:Diagnosed With ADHD at 25, Sarah's journey took a whole new meaning when she became a mum, leading her to create the incredible align shift method which we'll get into in this episode.
Speaker A:We we get into emotional regulation, parenting, neurodivergent children, medication, saffron stigma, rsd and the messy reality of trying to understand your brain whilst living in a neurotypical world, parenting and burnout.
Speaker A:This is the kind of honest, nuanced conversation you could have for hours, but we've crammed it into 45 minutes, so enjoy.
Speaker A:Quick ADHD hack before we start, if you're always forgetting to take your vitamins, make them so delicious that the only problem is perhaps taking too many.
Speaker A:Huge thank you to our sponsors, Proven Vitamins for believing in our mission and helping us support you.
Speaker A:Welcome Sarah Hartley to the ADHD Interrupted podcast.
Speaker A:Sarah is an ADHD mum, creator, author, helping children, adults, parents, people in relationships all over the world.
Speaker A:I'm so happy you're here.
Speaker B:Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker B:I'm excited to be here.
Speaker A:Thought we would start with your own personal journey with adhd.
Speaker A:How did your diagnosis come about?
Speaker A:Were you late diagnosed?
Speaker B:I was diagnosed at 25.
Speaker B:I was always in this studio setting where it was really vibrant and there was music playing and there was that procrastination that would happen until a big project was due and then I would come in and hyper focus and be able to very quickly finish my work and then come back the next morning and there were still students in there who were still trying to get their projects done at 8am and so I think for me I was able to really mask most of my life and I played a lot of sports and so I was constantly moving and running and being able to add those natural means of dopamine.
Speaker B:And so once I got into the actual working world it was, it was great.
Speaker B:But then I was stuck in this office and I was by myself and so I would just churn out my work and then be bored to tears.
Speaker B:And so I had to start sitting for these landscape architecture exams to get licensed and I did really well on the ones where I was able to draw and do site planning.
Speaker B:But when it came to those multiple Choices test.
Speaker B:It would say, you know, is.
Speaker B:Is what's the best answer?
Speaker B:Or is it A, B and C?
Speaker B:Or is it none of the above?
Speaker B:Or, you know, and so it was so confusing that I just got to this point of maybe there's something else going on.
Speaker B:Maybe it's adhd.
Speaker B:And I came across a quiz online and took the quiz and it said, you know, if you score 90 or above, maybe talk to your doctor.
Speaker B:And I think I scored a 120.
Speaker B:So I went in, I went and talked to our family, family doctor who I had known for a long time and, you know, was friends of my, and he said, oh, you know, you're.
Speaker B:You're just like me.
Speaker B:I also have adhd.
Speaker B:And so he gave me medication.
Speaker B:And I said, well, I don't really get it, because when I was little, you know, in school, all of the kids that had adhd, they were the very disruptive boys.
Speaker B:You know, they didn't do very well in school, and they were very hyperactive.
Speaker B:And I just.
Speaker B:I said, but I always made really great grades, so I don't understand.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:And he said, oh, it's because your IQ is higher, and so you've just overcompensated.
Speaker B:But that was kind of it.
Speaker B:He just said, here's medication and come back to me once a month and get your prescription.
Speaker B:And that was it.
Speaker B:I didn't know otherwise really what that meant or any sort of strategies.
Speaker B:I just had characterized myself into this, okay, that.
Speaker B:That makes sense, and this is going to help me study.
Speaker B:But otherwise, I just didn't really understand the full definition of everything around it and all the struggles that I had had leading up to that until I was probably in my mid-30s when I, my.
Speaker B:My oldest child who was diagnosed with adhd.
Speaker B:And I started to uncover some of those things and learning so much more about myself through his eyes and just through what I was learning about him.
Speaker A:Oh, wow, that's so common, isn't it?
Speaker A:Now, when.
Speaker A:When their child gets diagnosed, they, like parents, tend to find out a lot more about themselves.
Speaker A:And with the women, like women getting late diagnosed, it's.
Speaker A:I think, because when we're growing up, we're taught to behave like a lady, and we're taught to, you know, be a certain way, these soc expectations, but then also like our.
Speaker A:Not disruptiveness, but our kind of hyperactiveness comes out in ways that people would just label as dramatic or clean freak or, you know, there's all these behaviors that are us expelling this energy that is just accepted As a woman's thing,.
Speaker B:I would get in trouble when I was younger, I'd get in trouble for talking too much in class because I would be bored.
Speaker B:And you start talking or I didn't.
Speaker B:I remember even at 7 years old, not sleeping very well, like having issues, trying to go to sleep.
Speaker B:And it was that my hyperactivity was in my brain and I was internalizing all of it.
Speaker B:And with that came a lot of shame, a lot of anxiety of.
Speaker B:What I just didn't understand at that time was that was what was happening to me.
Speaker B:And I was very sensitive too.
Speaker B:So that overdramatic.
Speaker B:I was a younger sibling.
Speaker B:So my brother would kind of antagonize me and poke at me and then I would react and I would get in trouble, you know, and so my parents, maybe I would get punished or sent to my room because I was the one that had a big reaction to him, but he knew exactly how to push all my buttons.
Speaker A:Yeah, we can have real big, big reactions, can't we?
Speaker A:And then those reactions come with so much shame.
Speaker A:I did your quiz, the ADHD shift method quiz, and it was really validating because the question.
Speaker A:So it's like a multiple choice thing, isn't it?
Speaker A:And the questions that were coming up, it was like, oh my God, like I felt seen.
Speaker A:And it also normalized it for me because I'm still, I still carry a lot of shame around, you know, the emotional flooding and things like that.
Speaker A:Because sometimes you're like, oh God, I'm an adult, like, I shouldn't be behaving like this.
Speaker A:But, you know, it's wiring, not weakness, isn't it?
Speaker A:So the work that you do around emotional regulation as well and all your content is just brilliant because like you say, like, there's nothing, you know, the ADHD module itself is always considered like, you know, just being disrupted and stuff.
Speaker A:The emotional side of it isn't spoken about enough, I think.
Speaker B:Yes, I completely agree.
Speaker B:I think that's where we're, we really miss the mark on the emotional element.
Speaker B:And that we were just never taught growing up how to regulate our own emotions.
Speaker B:And of course, you know, the vast majority of those who have ADHD or some other neurodivergency, it is genetic.
Speaker B:And so now looking into it, I'm like, okay, I know exactly my family members, brother included, you know, who also have it.
Speaker B:And so that emotional regulation piece, what we witnessed was someone who was reactive.
Speaker B:And so at a young age, that's where you are so impressionable and you're learning how to Deal with emotions and growing up, you know, we either didn't talk about them or we buried them or we reacted.
Speaker B:And so we were never taught what to do.
Speaker B:And there's so many things out there of, you know, mindfulness and making sure you're meditating and you're, you know, doing all these things for self care.
Speaker B:But I still feel like where we are missing what to do is in that heat of the moment and when you're really trying not to lose your shit and you're just like, how do I not react?
Speaker B:And whether that's with someone at work or with your child, because they're bringing up some of those emotional triggers that you didn't realize you ever had.
Speaker B:And so the quiz is really centered around what are some of the patterns that we can identify within those triggers and then how with the aligned shift.
Speaker B:And it's a five step framework that can be less than 60 seconds in the moment of how do you kind of take that pause before losing it, you know, and then, and then also give yourself grace if you do lose it.
Speaker B:Because we're all human and I think we need to be a bit more nurturing with ourselves.
Speaker B:Especially for me, as I am one who's carried that shame.
Speaker B:I grew up Catholic and so for me it was very rigid, it was very structured, which was probably good for my ADHD in that sense, you know, of making sure I was falling in line and not getting in trouble.
Speaker B:But because of that there was so much shame that came into it.
Speaker B:And we call it the Catholic guilt.
Speaker B:And so I still carry so much of that and I have to constantly remind myself that I am a human being and I do make mistakes and the only thing I can do is learn from those mistakes.
Speaker A:Yeah, and I love about, what I love about the align method is it's something you can actually just screenshot and have on your phone.
Speaker A:So it's there.
Speaker B:One of my girlfriends actually, she is doing this really cool brain mapping thing for ADHD where they actually highlight different portions of your brain and they show you, you know, if you're watching something, essentially they're showing you different things and your brain is lighting up and so they have, you know, all of the attachments and everything that are happening.
Speaker B:So they're able to actually see this map of your brain and then the different signals that are coming and then it lights up in different areas.
Speaker B:And she said the brain mapping test is that actually told her this quiz exactly matched how all the results came back for her.
Speaker B:And so slowly over time she goes to these multiple sessions and then she'll continue to watch this screen and it'll change to signal different parts of her brain and kind of bridge the gap, which I thought was really cool.
Speaker B:I mean you could need up to 40 or plus sessions, but apparently it's supposed to rewire your brain completely and then it's permanent so that it's something that you then become less reactive.
Speaker B:You learn more about how to do some of that constant awareness and self care throughout the day so that you're not managing quite as much.
Speaker B:So, you know, I'm going to wait and see how everything goes with her, but it's absolutely something I'm open to as well.
Speaker A:That is incredible.
Speaker A:That fills me with so much hope.
Speaker A:Did becoming a mother completely change the way you understood emotional regulation?
Speaker B:Oh, 1,000%.
Speaker B:You know, I think back in even the challenges that I've had with, with both children, I would always do it again.
Speaker B:Even though it has been so hard.
Speaker B:It is, you know, ripped part of my soul of just trying, being at that almost rock bottom point of what am I doing?
Speaker B:Am I even cut out for this?
Speaker B:Is this something that I should even be doing because of how challenging it is.
Speaker B:And I think that's where the masking for so many years where you just are burying all emotions and carrying that shame.
Speaker B:And I deal with a lot of the rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria and so, you know, feeling like I'm not good enough and, and having some of that come to light with children is so difficult.
Speaker B:And at one point I think my oldest was four and we were trying to determine if he was going to go to kindergarten early.
Speaker B:And because he's very, very smart and brilliant and he is very tall for his age.
Speaker B:And so he had missed the cut off for school by just a week.
Speaker B:And so we were trying to figure that out.
Speaker B:And so he went through the testing and was diagnosed with ADHD and has sensory processing disorder.
Speaker B:And then also found out that he is highly gifted and so has that really high IQ which creates those challenges.
Speaker B:It's not a gift because often your cognitive skills are so much far superior than your age, but your social emotional skills.
Speaker B:And that emotional regulation is either at your age level or far below it.
Speaker B:And so the gap between the two of those things create really an explosion.
Speaker B:And so from the time he was maybe two years old, we started noticing some aggressive behavior like hitting.
Speaker B:And these constant incident reports were coming home from preschool, you know, you're at daycare and it's.
Speaker B:You're such a young child, but yet, you know, you're getting in trouble for hitting or biting or pushing or, you know, any of those things.
Speaker B:And the relationships he was developing was with most of the teachers because he, they could understand him.
Speaker B:He could understand them.
Speaker B:You know, it was this actual communication and he would get really frustrated with kids that were his age because they didn't communicate the way that he did because their, their brains weren't quite at that same level.
Speaker B:And so this, this anxiety every day of picking him up from school and wondering if we were going to get this report or he was going to get kicked out of school.
Speaker B:And I had this one teacher who said he did get kicked out of two different preschools and one of the owners said, you know, he'll need individualized education for the rest of his life.
Speaker B:And no, he, no, you don't see him, you don't know him, like when he feels.
Speaker B:And also he's very much like me, that he is sensitive, but he could take on other people's emotions and he could tell if he wasn't safe.
Speaker B:And when he was kicked out of the next preschool, it was because the teacher was awful and she had actually really grabbed him and really hurt him.
Speaker B:And so he was acting in a way of like, I am not safe and I don't want to be here.
Speaker B:And so we dealt with a lot of those struggles and then constantly at home, you know, there's triggers for me that are coming up because, you know, I have all of these different emotions I've never processed.
Speaker B:I was in the shower and I just had this low point of, you know, what is my purpose?
Speaker B:Why am I here?
Speaker B:I just, I'm at this rock bottom point and I got out of the shower that day and I pulled out my notes app on my phone and I actually wrote my first children's book.
Speaker B:And so what for me became this full cathartic WR has now turned into these 14 children's books that are.
Speaker B:The title of the series is Purposefully Me.
Speaker B:And it goes into just elements of confidence and bravery and feeling, inner strength and different conflicts that we have.
Speaker B:And I was really able to channel my inner child with all of that and pull out some of those deep rooted emotions and almost work through them within this writing, but done at a child level because I think for me, I never healed that inner child.
Speaker B:So without, you know, the two of my boys, I wouldn't be where I am today and have this lens of we can get through this and talking more about it and understanding the way that our brains work and connecting with people who get us there.
Speaker B:There's so much power in that.
Speaker B:And that feeling of not feeling so alone in your own brain because that's the way that I felt for the vast majority of my life.
Speaker A:I really commend you on the work you're doing about bravery and self esteem and stuff because it's things like that and not feeling safe is why we grow up feeling so inferior and people pleasing and feeling so rubbish about ourselves.
Speaker A:And I think the work that you're doing, it's going to change that landscape and it's going to make people so much more aware.
Speaker B:School wasn't built for the environment for our brains, you know, not to mention like how early school starts and our brains don't really wake up until probably 10am you know, I'm a night owl.
Speaker B:Just the world is not set on what works for our brains and then sitting for it.
Speaker B:It's hard for an adult to sit for three hours straight or five hours straight like a child.
Speaker B:Sitting for that long is kind of crazy when you think about it.
Speaker A:I remember when I was at school as well, it was so common to get punished or told off for your symptoms, like fidgeting, talking too much, you know, things like this, being late for lessons, I mean, and some of it's justified, you know, being late isn't good but things like fidgeting or you know, it's.
Speaker A:And then that makes us so ashamed of ourselves because we can't help it at the end of the day.
Speaker A:And I'm with you on the night owl owl thing by the way.
Speaker A:I don't book any meetings till after 11 because like I'm just not in that headspace at all.
Speaker A:I have to have some real buffer time in the mornings and just, you know, I work but I have to make sure anything social is, is why.
Speaker B:After 11, oh, it can be emotionally draining.
Speaker B:And this week my husband's out of town and so I'm taking the boys to school and I've noticed after that chaos in the morning and you know, I'm, you know, of course I'm way later taking them.
Speaker B:They haven't been late late but you know, there's a, there's a 15 minute time period of where my husband's got them there.
Speaker B:Like they are there five minutes before that 15 minutes starts and then we're there like five minutes before the bell rings.
Speaker B:And you know, I've noticed myself, I'll get back to the house and, and then I'm just sitting in my car and there's this moment where I'm needing like 10 minutes to just kind of sit and even go through things on my phone or whatever it is I need before I could even walk in the house and start my day.
Speaker B:Because I need that time to transition.
Speaker B:And it's take.
Speaker B:It takes so much out of me that I take for granted when my husband normally takes them to school.
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:There are these little moments that I have to realize throughout the day.
Speaker B:And even as you mentioned fidgeting, like I'm fidgeting with my wedding band, like that is just something that I'm constantly doing.
Speaker B:And I have rings or I have things that maybe I didn't notice throughout my life that I did that I like leveraged as these coping mechanisms but.
Speaker B:But now I'm aware of it and now I understand I need to take pause in some of these things and just realize that my brain does work differently and I've got to take that moment and if I don't, I will burn out so much more quickly.
Speaker A:We self surveillance a lot, don't we?
Speaker A:Like we're really sensitive to how we're, you know, coming across and things like that.
Speaker A:But I think when I got diagnosed I found I was doing that even more because I was aware more of these things when I wasn't diagnosed.
Speaker A:I look back and I call it like an involuntary confidence because I used to like blurt things out or just be really loud or really talkative but I didn't realize I was kind of doing it.
Speaker A:And now, oh that's, that's why I was always being called a nose or whatever.
Speaker A:So now I'm like hyper aware of.
Speaker B:It all now knowing some of it like the time blindness piece or the hyper focus.
Speaker B:I'll be so exhausted and in bed know that I need to go to sleep.
Speaker B:But then like maybe I have to use the bathroom before bed or like get up to do one last thing but the thought of doing that is so painful.
Speaker B:So then I'm kind of paralyzed in this state and so you know, doom scrolling and just like instead of going to bed because it's like I'm too tired to get up, but I'm.
Speaker B:I have to get up before I can go to bed.
Speaker B:And so I'm just in this and I now have to give myself a pep talk like you, you know what this is.
Speaker B:Like you, you now understand why you are doing this.
Speaker B:Like get up and go to sleep.
Speaker B:Like there's just, it's such a difficult position to be in where you can be so paralyzed in all of it.
Speaker A:That's such a common thing.
Speaker A:Like dreading going to bed for ADHD is.
Speaker A:What do you think about like dooms.
Speaker A:Doom Scrolling is bad.
Speaker A:Like it is like hands down.
Speaker A:But there's been times when like I've left like a big event or something and I felt so overwhelmed and like this is how I know it's addictive because I'm craving it.
Speaker A:But I'm like on the train, I'm like, right, I just need to scroll.
Speaker A:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker A:Like I need to do something that's mind numbing, not read a book, not, you know, go for a run.
Speaker A:I just need to be a zombie for a minute.
Speaker A:So I think in some respects it can help.
Speaker A:But I think this is where like AI Internet tech, it can be a gift and a curse to ADHD as can't it?
Speaker A:Like it's going to help us so much in so many ways.
Speaker A:But I think we need to be careful with it.
Speaker B:Oh yes.
Speaker B:And I, and I will do the same thing if I need, I just call it I need to decompress.
Speaker B:Sometimes what I try to do is, you know, put on an actual TV show on the TV instead of having it on an iPad.
Speaker B:And that separation, it's easier for me to turn it off with a remote or my husband goes to bed earlier so that I have to stop.
Speaker B:But if I have that device in my hand and it's the same thing for kids, like we try to do more family movies because if they have their device, you can't get it away from them.
Speaker B:But I also understand when they come home they probably need to decompress too.
Speaker B:And so that's the difficulty of how do we, you know, I want them to go play outside, but then I also know that sometimes they just need that mindless numb, you know, numbing.
Speaker B:And I think something with the scrolling too is like the repetitive pattern that also calms our brain because I've even, I've even started using there's one app that has like calming games where you know, you're like sorting certain, you know, little piles of gumballs or candy or whatever it is into certain colors and that the idea of that is supposed to calm our brain.
Speaker B:And so there are certain ones that technically are calming for the ADHD brain even though they're a game, even though they're on a screen.
Speaker B:So I'll just take my, how bright the screen is and try to put that down as far as it goes so that it's as dark as possible or it's on a nighttime mode or I'll put my glasses on so that I have, you know, more of the blue blocking element of what's in.
Speaker B:In those glasses just to kind of help with some of it.
Speaker B:But I.
Speaker B:There are days where I just need it.
Speaker A:Like, it is a bit of a tool in.
Speaker A:In small doses, I think.
Speaker A:It's funny you say that about the games.
Speaker A:I. I think games are actually.
Speaker A:It can be good for the brain.
Speaker A:Like, it's like problem solving.
Speaker A:Everyone slights me for this, but I swear to God, I cannot.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:I can't sleep.
Speaker A:I'm a terrible sleeper.
Speaker A:But if I put a film on, I will fall asleep.
Speaker A:And I don't know what that is.
Speaker A:And I try to make sense of it and I thought, well, maybe, because if.
Speaker A:If there's no distractions, then my brain inside itself is going a million miles per hour.
Speaker A:It's got like a.
Speaker A:With a thousand thoughts going on.
Speaker A:But if I'm watching a film, I'm just anchored into that one thing so that one thing is better than a million things going off and my brain can at least calm.
Speaker A:When you wake up in the middle of the night, like, it's so dangerous because if you need the toilet in the middle of the night and you've got up and you've got out of bed and then you come back, it's like.
Speaker A:Like all the thoughts are there again.
Speaker A:It's not like you can do what I mean, like, as soon as I start moving and then often I can't get back to sleep.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:Sleep is a real struggle for most adhd and it's so hard because I think our brain uses up so much energy anyway.
Speaker A:Like, we need more sleep.
Speaker A:If anything, it's bizarre.
Speaker A:We don't want to go to bed, but we don't want to get out of it either.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:A really quick shout out to our sponsor, Proven Vitamins.
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Speaker A:ADHD 30.
Speaker A:Now back to the episode.
Speaker A:You speak about Saffron on your page.
Speaker A:And I wanted to ask you about this because Dr. Amen, I follow him, is an ADHD psychiatrist and he speaks really highly of it and I'm yet to try it.
Speaker A:Does it work so far?
Speaker B:I think Saffron works really well.
Speaker B:I think you have to make sure there aren't any other ingredient ingredients that counteract with actual medication.
Speaker B:So what I've noticed with that one is it has St. John's Wort in it and that has some drug interactions with ADHD medications or antidepressants.
Speaker B:And so making sure even that you have that pure saffron is a really great way to be able to help with some of that focus.
Speaker B:So things like fish oil, magnesium, saffron, iron, even, those are all really good supplements to have that to kind of in your, your toolbox.
Speaker B:And as long as you talk to your doctor to make sure there aren't any drug interactions with things that you're taking.
Speaker B:So I think for those who are medicated, it's definitely a great route to go.
Speaker B:But then when you are medicated like myself and using in conjunction with other things, I think that's also can be really great to help with some of the focus, the sleep.
Speaker B:Magnesium especially.
Speaker B:I think that's such a huge one to do with sleep.
Speaker B:If you are to get any supplements, my recommendation would be to go directly to the brand and get it from the brand website and then make sure that they have some of that lab testing and clinical quality and studies around it so that you know that what you're getting is pure.
Speaker A:That's so good to know because we live in a world now where it's just like you need something, you just go on Amazon prime like.
Speaker A:And by the way, that is so not ADHD friendly.
Speaker A:I deleted the Amazon app.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:I just go on it, the browser now it's done.
Speaker A:No difference.
Speaker A:But yeah, the way things are marketed to us and just thrown in our face and like, for the impulsive adhd, that is so not helpful.
Speaker A:Do you think we're seeing like a growth of like natural approaches to adhd, more holistic roots?
Speaker B:You know, I do.
Speaker B:And the interesting thing is as more and more awareness is happening, more and more children are getting diagnosed.
Speaker B:My understanding is that some children that maybe come in and they present as inattentive instead of hyperactive, that some doctors will say, well, there's nothing we can do.
Speaker B:And so I think that those parents are trying to figure out where do they turn?
Speaker B:Because doctors, despite the actual stimulant portion of the ADHD medication, really helping for those who are more hyperactive.
Speaker B:That's where I think they're trying to still find a resource and trying to figure out what is it that they can take.
Speaker B:And maybe that's in a supplement form, but that education isn't there from either the psychiatrist.
Speaker B:They're Seeing or from just their pediatrician.
Speaker B:And so they're left confused, and they're not sure where to turn or what to do.
Speaker B:And I think it sometimes depends on, you know, what doctor that you're talking to.
Speaker B:So that's where I think the hope is, especially with the company that I work for, of just trying to get that education and awareness out more and more, and where we've developed those protocols that are specific for adhd.
Speaker B:But absolutely, there's just.
Speaker B:There is, I think, more evidence coming about of how certain natural things can help with adhd.
Speaker A:How do you find it with your child?
Speaker A:Like, is it.
Speaker A:Is it hard for him to find the language of, like, how he's feeling?
Speaker A:Because obviously, you know, there's such a wealth of emotions that goes on, and as an adult, sometimes we struggle to find the words for it.
Speaker A:So as a child, that must be really hard to navigate for both of you.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker B:And it seems like at school that I think.
Speaker B:And less feedback from him, more feedback from teachers or what we were noticing at home.
Speaker B:And for my son specifically, it was that he had a slow metabolism, which is wild to think of because he's very tall and thin, and it seems like he has a great metabolism when it comes to actual food, but maybe it's something different.
Speaker B:And so what was happening is he was metabolizing the medication so slowly that in the afternoon, it was actually what was called a rebound.
Speaker B:Because then, even though it's supposed to be a extended release, you know, where they're slowly, it's kind of slowly releasing through your system throughout the day.
Speaker B:By the end of the day, he was coming unglued and just bouncing off the walls.
Speaker B:Him and his brother were fighting like it was just complete chaos.
Speaker B:And so that metabolism, how it was metabolizing, was causing then for this rebound to happen.
Speaker B:And then that was what was then causing more anxiety.
Speaker B:And then he also wasn't sleeping.
Speaker B:So, you know, in general, it was just a bad scenario where I was just having to take data, you know, essentially, and kind of writing down certain things that were occurring and then understanding, okay, was that better than the last time?
Speaker B:Do we need to go up a dosage?
Speaker B:You know, how does this work?
Speaker B:But a doctor's not with your child all day long.
Speaker B:You know, it's going to be their teachers and it's going to be their parents.
Speaker B:And so we're the ones that really have to be the advocates, whether that is for ourselves.
Speaker B:So, you know, my advice would be, even if you're taking that medication for Yourself start to just write down like what's happening throughout the day.
Speaker B:Are you feeling that crash?
Speaker A:I, I had that crash as well.
Speaker A:And no one warned you about that.
Speaker A:And it's, it's horrible.
Speaker A:I remember I would go to university in the morning feeling fantastic, and then I would drive home in the afternoon just like, what am I doing with my life?
Speaker A:You know, it's quite a dramatic crash.
Speaker A:It's like you, it's not, you don't go down to baseline, it's like below baseline, I think.
Speaker B:Oh yeah, and I think so too because I think it's like you've been so high all day.
Speaker B:It's like it's your, you know, your neurotransmitters are firing all day long and they're working at like peak level and then it just completely crashes.
Speaker A:And it doesn't matter how high I went up because I spoke to my doctor about this and he was like, we'll just put you up some more.
Speaker A:And we just put you up some more.
Speaker A:And I ended up like, like 70 milligrams, I think it was, and still happened.
Speaker A:Didn't matter how high I went up.
Speaker A:So in the end I now take a lower dose in the morning and then a top up because that seems to work better for me.
Speaker A:It worked in so many amazing ways.
Speaker A:I studied at university, so for that it was fantastic.
Speaker A:If I'm honest, there was times when I could feel my intuition wasn't what it used to be.
Speaker A:I think we're highly intuitive anyway, as ADHD is.
Speaker A:And I did find that had dampened.
Speaker A:Personally, I know that doesn't happen to everybody.
Speaker A:And then the sleep, like you say, which is a huge thing.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:Once I had this huge assignment to do and I took, I took one hour Vance in the morning and then I thought, I'm just going to stay up all night and do it.
Speaker A:And I took another one.
Speaker A:Worst idea ever.
Speaker A:I do not recommend that to anybody.
Speaker A:It was after about a 12, 12 hour, you know, period.
Speaker A:But yeah, I didn't sleep for like till about the afternoon.
Speaker A:The next day.
Speaker A:There's, there's quite a lot of people are conflicted in the uk, I've noticed about whether or not to medicate their children.
Speaker A:I think some people worry it's going to change.
Speaker A:I think even adults, to be honest, even adults I speak to are worried about having medication because they think it's gonna, they're gonna lose their spark or, you know, it's gonna dampen their personality and stuff.
Speaker A:That wasn't my experience.
Speaker A:I Know, I mentioned I felt my intuition was dampened, which I did, but I didn't feel like it changed my personality at all, really.
Speaker A:But, yeah.
Speaker A:What would be your advice to parents and adults who are worried about going down the medication, Ro?
Speaker B:Oh, I mean, it's.
Speaker B:It's such a hard thing to know what's.
Speaker B:What's right for you.
Speaker B:I think you kind of have to take it on that case by case basis.
Speaker B:And, you know, I'm.
Speaker B:I'm not a doctor, but in my own, like, personal journey, for me, medication was the right.
Speaker B:It was the right option, especially at 25 years old.
Speaker B:And I think back and I wish that I would have been medicated earlier.
Speaker B:And I think about, oh, there's so many things of impulsiveness or, you know, that constant being in my head and feeling like I'm different.
Speaker B:You know, that was really challenging.
Speaker B:And then I think of just mistakes that I've made, you know, or, you know, overusing alcohol.
Speaker B:You know, things for me that I feel like in, you know, university.
Speaker B:For me, it was.
Speaker B:I had that element of social anxiety.
Speaker B:And so, you know, you know, having those drinks before going out, then going out and having more, and that just kind of being in this culture of drinking so much, basically drink until you pass out, you know, all of that being so challenging.
Speaker B:If I would have been medicated, I wouldn't have needed that.
Speaker B:And I think about how my anxiety would have been so much lessened.
Speaker B:Like, I just would have had a different experience.
Speaker B:And there, you know, of course, I never want to change anything because I know that there's so much that I've learned from the mistakes that I've made.
Speaker B:And I know that what I've been through has made me who I am today.
Speaker B:But at the same time, I think my life would have been a lot easier.
Speaker B:I probably would have made some better decisions.
Speaker B:That crutch is a way for us to just calm our brains.
Speaker B:And when you think about how loud and noisy they are, and when I.
Speaker B:When I was trying to make that decision for my son and I talked to his doctor, his doctor said, you know, there are a lot of studies that she was like, I don't want you to think that he's going to now go off and be a drug addict because he has had this ADHD medication.
Speaker B:It's actually quite the opposite.
Speaker B:And she gave me that advice of, you know, think about, he won't need that crutch, he won't need that coping mechanism.
Speaker B:He won't need to turn to that.
Speaker B:Because the Medication is actually making his brain, you know, feel calm and be able to communicate and be able to be less impulsive.
Speaker B:And I even think about with driving, you know, for him to be an erratic driver, maybe he will be safer because he is less impulsive because of that.
Speaker B:And I think, you know, even the same about myself.
Speaker B:And she mentioned that a lot of men or boys who start medication early, that they will actually, by their 20s, they don't need it anymore because if they do learn the strategies.
Speaker B:Because if you think about you when you are medicated, you're going to be more likely to implement the strategies if you've gone to occupational therapy or if you've actually had therapy instead of just, just pushing it out of your, your mind or not listening.
Speaker B:You know, I think about like when I was younger and I was in church and I, my brain would just like, I have no idea what they said.
Speaker B:You know, I was off in a different world.
Speaker B:So I didn't like fully understand all the messages and lessons that were maybe taught at that time.
Speaker B:And so if that child is medicated, then they would have that ability to interpret and understand and really recognize some of those things that they can use later in life.
Speaker B:And you know, that's my, my personal opinion.
Speaker B:And like I said, it might not same for someone who's not hyperactive.
Speaker B:I thought that I was maybe inattentive and then I took a test that said I'm actually hyperactive because that activity is in my brain while I wasn't out outwardly hyperactive as a child.
Speaker B:So I think there's only so much that you can do to expand your energy, you know, and so many sports that you can play or the type of schooling that you go to, that's going to be strict.
Speaker B:You know, there's still a brain chemistry element and there's still things that we are lacking like dopamine and serotonin and, you know, other chemical things.
Speaker B:And if you have a heart condition, you're going to take that heart medication your doctor prescribes to you because you have this heart condition.
Speaker B:So why there's such a stigma around taking medication for something that we lack that to me I'll never understand.
Speaker B:And again, it might not be right for some people and maybe you're not not in this hyperactive state that you need that calming mechanism.
Speaker B:Maybe you are more inattentive and there's other things you can use or, you know, other strategies you can implement.
Speaker B:But for what's worked in my life, I, I think my life would have been different with, with medication.
Speaker A:That is so true.
Speaker A:Like you've literally changed my mindset on that now.
Speaker A:Like so true what you said about the heart medication.
Speaker A:I mean, if you get a headache, you take a tablet, right?
Speaker A:And it's just, yeah, there is a stigma around it, definitely.
Speaker A:I remember driving, thinking, oh my God, is this how normal people feel?
Speaker A:Because before that I was on like really hyper vigilant, on high alert, like, couldn't relax.
Speaker A:I always felt like I was about to crash Touchwood.
Speaker A:That never happens.
Speaker A:People focus too much on the side effects of taking it, but not the side effects of not taking it.
Speaker A:And I think maybe that's where the, you know, the outlook needs to change a little bit, especially around children.
Speaker B:And you think too about how often a child who has ADHD is corrected and you don't do this, stay still, you know, stop talking, whatever it might be.
Speaker B:I mean, you're, you're corrected thousands of times more than a neurotypical child.
Speaker B:And so every one of those corrections is, is still feeding your brain this negative thought cycle of I'm not good enough, you know, no one loves me, you know, and so that's constantly just getting into their psyche.
Speaker B:And so if there is something that's going to help, help even in the classroom of like, that allows for that child to participate in a way that other children are participating and to be less likely to be reprimanded, you know, that's going to help build their self esteem.
Speaker B:And it's beautiful when you do find the right teachers and you do find teachers who see you for who you are, that helps go such a long way and it can take that one person to change the whole trajectory of where you might go.
Speaker B:And I think about that with myself as well.
Speaker B:If I wouldn't have had any cheerleaders or champions along the way, that would have been, been really hard.
Speaker B:And you know, because I didn't have that medication, but my parents were always behind me and so I had that love and support and was very lucky that I did because otherwise it, my life could look a lot different.
Speaker B:And so my heart just goes out to all of those children or you know, even everyone in their inner child that just feels so broken and just didn't have that love and support.
Speaker B:And that's what I really am trying to convey through these children's books that I've written because I want for the adult who's maybe reading it to see themselves.
Speaker B:And I had, you know, some psychiatrists and psychologists read the books and one psychologist said, you know, I See myself in this book and I see my daughter in the other one.
Speaker B:And it might be that those friends who, you know, were never diagnosed have that aha.
Speaker B:Moment of, oh, wow, this is me, this is describing me.
Speaker B:And then they feel a little bit less alone.
Speaker A:I love that you're making such a difference in the community and I love that you found your purpose.
Speaker A:Like, it's just, I think as an adhd, we are more prone to wanting to help and we have that drive and having a diagnosis later in life and having, Having to go through that and then, like yourself, having a child with adhd, it must give you so much drive and so much passion.
Speaker A:But I want to ask you a couple of questions to finish and.
Speaker A:Yeah, so if, if every parent listening remembered one thing during the hard moments with their child, what would you want it to be?
Speaker B:Every one of those hard moments, it's.
Speaker B:It's information that it's telling us, you know, if we wouldn't have mistakes in our lives, if we, we wouldn't have these hardships, then we would never learn.
Speaker B:And so all of those moments are just opportunity, really trying to turn them into an opportunity to maybe do something different the next time.
Speaker B:And that we're human, we are all just human beings.
Speaker B:I feel like all of us are just kind of tapped out.
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker B:I mean, especially right now, it's like the.
Speaker B:The end of school, at least for all of us here, and it's.
Speaker B:There's so many things all at once and I've dropped the ball on a couple of things and I just have to give myself grace and that's something that I probably wouldn't have done even a few years ago.
Speaker B:I would have been really hard on myself.
Speaker B:And so I think we just have to remember that we're all just learning, we're all growing and that we've got to give ourselves that human experience and nurture ourselves as well.
Speaker B:We're all doing the best that we can.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:Just seeing as information and data, not as failure, it's so important.
Speaker A:If an ADHD mum is listening now and feeling broken, what would you want her to understand the most?
Speaker B:Oh, you're.
Speaker B:You're not broken, you.
Speaker B:I remember at one point telling a colleague, I said, I don't know why, but I feel like everything is just harder for me.
Speaker B:And she said, you know what?
Speaker B:You might be right and it might just be harder for you.
Speaker B:And so when we're just at that low point, it.
Speaker B:There's so much more, there's so much depth to all of us and that you're not alone in that.
Speaker B:And I think that now that we're talking more about this and recognizing, you know, that there's so much more of us that are alike than we think.
Speaker B:And so you are, you're not broken.
Speaker B:You are exactly who you are supposed to be.
Speaker B:The world is just not, not built for us.
Speaker B:And so we have to recognize that.
Speaker B:And even through every person, like, we all have our strengths and we have that inner strength.
Speaker B:And from that, when you are feeling that broken, that is then the opportunity to build something beautiful and to really learn and grow from where that purpose and that point might be.
Speaker B:Because it could just be that, that you're then sharing your story with someone else and you're this broken mom, or you feel that broken, and you shared that with one other mom, and now that other mom doesn't feel shame and doesn't feel like she's failing.
Speaker B:And so you're starting to build that community because you're being open and you're being transparent in your own journey.
Speaker B:And now you've helped one other person.
Speaker B:And I think that's what I always hope for, is if I can just help one person, you know, that's going to be so meaningful to me.
Speaker A:I love that so much.
Speaker A:And can I just say, one of the most beautiful things that I felt after my diagnosis was the community, the online community, and, you know, connecting with people like you and, you know, just finding your people.
Speaker A:Like we said earlier, we kind of vibrate towards each other.
Speaker A:And that's such an important thing to realize that you're not alone.
Speaker A:And, you know, all these are the people out there that get it, you know, like, they're amazing.
Speaker A:I, I've not yet met someone in this community that I haven't thought one incredible human being.
Speaker A:But yeah, I agree.
Speaker A:Lastly, I always ask everybody this.
Speaker A:What is one current ADHD narrative that you would like to interrupt?
Speaker B:For me, it's that, that no one cares to hear what I have to say.
Speaker B:You know, I have to constantly remind myself that my voice is important and that it can help other people.
Speaker B:And I think I will often get in my head and say, why would someone even want to listen to me?
Speaker B:Why would someone even want to hear from me?
Speaker B:And I have to remind myself that that's my own negative thought patterns coming in.
Speaker B:And I just want to interrupt that and say, like, I, I, I do have something to say.
Speaker B:I do have this voice, and people can benefit from it or learn from it, and maybe I can help someone else.
Speaker B:And so to not just stop because I think that's, that's what, you know, we kind of feel that moment of like, why am I even doing this?
Speaker B:Nobody, nobody cares or wants to listen to me.
Speaker B:And I have to just tell, tell that negative thought that I am enough.
Speaker B:And I, I do have this voice.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:And I for one am so glad that you are using your voice and I so I know so many others around the world are too.
Speaker A:Sarah, thank you so, so much for doing this and I could literally talk to you for like another few hours, but I'll let you go.
Speaker A:But thank you so, so much.
Speaker A:I will put in the caption where they can find your book and you and your amazing work and content and of course the align method so I can keep that in their phone pocket.
Speaker B:Oh yes.
Speaker B:If you go to my website, you know, you can Download a free 60 second reset guide.
Speaker B:It'll, it'll walk you through, you know, what means, how to use it, even some sample scenarios and things like that.
Speaker B:So, you know, go, go get that guide and use some of those free resources.
Speaker A:Thank you so much.
Speaker A:We hope you enjoyed this episode.
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